New Speed Classes for 2010
After a great deal of work consulting all major Clubs & Championships, we have finally been given the go ahead by the MSA to implement the “Northern Speed Classes” so we have now finalised the full class structure & clarifications that will be used by the majority of speed events in the Northwest, Northeast and Midlands in 2010.
Please note that whilst all clubs listed will be using these clarifications, we have tried to get all clubs to also use the classes as listed but there are still a few clubs who have decided not to adopt them just yet, whilst others may add extra classes or amalgamate some of those shown in order to accommodate local practice. The structure is being adopted voluntarily so, whilst we have requested that all clubs/championships keep to the same class numbering system, we cannot compel them to do so. If you find a club or championship that is not using the new structure, why not suggest (strongly) to the organisers that it would be a good idea for them to adopt them?
We welcome feedback on your experiences during the year so that we can tell how successful the classes have been, and can consider any minor tweaks that may be required for 2011.
Last update was on the 30th November 2009
You can find the full details by clicking here
These changes mainly effect those competing in the Roadgoing classes, please read them carefully before preparing your car for 2010.
Ron – Excellent night on Friday, as usual, the c/ship’s trophy ”cabinet” does you proud – I’m sorry we had to leave before the lap- dancers arrived !!
Seriously though – I like your class structure for 2010 and the new regs – the road – going classes might now have to get back to some semblance of reality – I just hope it is policed strictly
and the clubs that have ‘’signed up” to these classes actually implement this new structure
All clubs that have subscribed to these regs have said that they will be impressing on their Scrutineers the need to be strict and enforce them.
We need feedback during the course of the year so that we can iron out any bugs etc for the following years.
What engine spec/modification is allowed for Class 2c? There was rumour of BHP cap is this correct?
As per Blue Book I78 .
If we do not mention it is as per the Blue Book and it does not list any form of BHP Capping
Hi
Does this now mean no engine mods such as cams, ported heads and lsd’s are allowed in classes 1A-E?
sorry i am a bit new to all this, if its not mentioned in the Blue book then is it allowed for 2c?
IE:Larger Intercooler, Oilcooler, Ecu upgrade, Fuel Swirl Pot, etc
Colin
These regs and classes are set out to clarify only those parts of the regs in Section I that are ambiguous the rest as I said previously are as Section I of the Blue Book.
The relevant reg is I81 and it only states that the casing must be of original type and material and remain in their original position. It does not mention that you cannot fit LSD’s etc.
Same applies to engines I77.
Ian
I think you are getting the hang of this minefield, I77 covers this one. see my last comment.
Thanks………minefield indeed
Hang on, there is a new clause in those regs for roadgoing 1A to 1E that says “Any modifications not specifically permitted are, by definition, not allowed”. In the roadgoing section of the blue book it doesn’t specicially say you can do anything to your engine (bar exhaust and induction) or suspension.
So that clause means modifications are illegal in roadgoing 1a to 1e.
Thanks carmad,
I think the thing that is confusing everybody is the statement ‘Any modifications not specifically permitted are, by definition, not allowed.’
No wonder people hoping to start the sport are put off!
I am glad that you are all finally reading regulations.
As with everything we have tried to cover all the bases and as you might have already surmised you need to interpert the Blue Book and we think that as long as you do not change cylinder block or head that you can modify the existing internal parts i.e. upgrade the cam, valves etc all it means is you cannot change the engine to something that was never fitted to that car.
Very difficult I know. This is why we have said that you cannot modify the engine on the Standard roadgoing, otherwise what would be the point of having standard cars.
Hope that this helps. Unless some of our more technical brethren know better .
Thanks,
Am not talking about S classes but 1A to 1E, which used to allow modifications to engine and suspension.
The blue book in roadgoing doesn’t say what modifications you CAN do. It only says what you CAN’T do, i.e. use another cylinder head.
So this new clause means that because changing your pistons for bigger ones isn’t ’specifically permitted’ in the MSA rules or the new Northern Regulation Supplement, you can;t change them.
You also can’t change your cam or fit shortened harder springs and so on. None of these technical modifications is specified as permitted in the blue book.
So this new clause will class 95% of modifcations to cars in class 1A to 1E as illegal.
Hi Dane
As I have said before I do not come from a mechanical background as I was in electronics please leave the question with me and i will try to get a definitive answer for you as soon as possible.
Thanks, really appreciate it. Is there someone I can phone about this?
The MSA blue book (in roadgoing) regs say what you can’t do, they don’t list all modifications that are permitted.
So this clause could be used to protest most current cars in 1A to 1E.
I am even more confused now,
Ian, Me too, & I’ve been helping to write the new classes!
We’ve sent Dane’s query round the “team” to obtain a consensus. Having said that, (as Ron says above) the official line from the MSA is that if the Blue Book doesn’t say you can do it, by definition, you can’t!
The problem is that people have been getting away with things for so long, that they have become accepted as the norm.
Let’s see what the “experts” say in due course…….
Many thanks to everyone
We are working on a solution which should be available within the next couple of days.
We are clarifying what I77 & I81 states already.
Please watch this space!!!!!
The following clarification will be added to the current speed classes during the early part of next week.
“Engine & Gearbox: The engine block &/or cylinder head must remain as original type and material. Internal modifications are allowed but the cubic capacity must remain within the same capacity class as the original car (I77).
Gearbox and differential casing must be of the original type and material and remain in the original position. Internal modifications are allowed (I81)”
Right got that for engine and box internals, now what about upgrades to ancillaries? Turbo, Ecu, Intercooler, Fuel rails, Injectors, oil cooler ETC, I plan on running in 2c
Regards
Ian
sorry, Meant I plan on running in 1c
Hi Ian
We have not listed every point as this is already covered in the Blue Book (I77)
“Induction is free ……..etc”
I hope that clears up your problem
We are a little surprised that the Northern Speed Championship was not included in these discussions, Wigton MC is a member of the ANWCC as well.
I note they do not follow the MSA regs as per tyres to incude 1A and 1B for road cars which is odd.
Hi Graeme
My apolgies for not including you in the original discussion as I did not get the original group together.
That aside it has passed all expectations as we now have the Midland on board as well.
Believe it or not I had just received your contact details earlier today and was about to email and ask you if you wished to join the rest of us.
We all stongly believe that this is the way to go and with the changes that we have to implement in 2010 thought it was the time to carry out this exercise
The main reason for not allowing 1B tyres in 2010 is because at the end of 2010 at lot of the existing 1B tyres will no longer be road legal and if we allowed them each competitor would have to have two sets of tyres as 1B’s are not suitable in the wet.
We decided to look at the situation again at the end of 2010.
These regs are with the MSA at the moment and we are waiting for feedback from them. I will email you shortly with my contact details
My view (having initially raised this issue over a year ago) is that Ron and his team have made a great effort here and delivered a major step forward in the debate for which we should all be thankfull. Its not perfect but it is progress, ideally competitors should meet them halfway and try and fit in but obviously we all want to maximise our individual performance and therefore tend to explore every nuance of the proposed changes. For what its worth I hope that one day we have a Blue Book section on speed events that says “every thing on the car must be standard apart from the following allowed modifications…. and then list everything you can do. I would include maximum negative camber and castor angle for the front suspension, Finally the cars must be checked against these regs at the first event or on a specific scrutineering day pre season. That would be quite a social day full of the buzz and excitement of a new season in the offing
I know “above us only sky”