New Speed Classes for 2010
After a great deal of work consulting all major Clubs & Championships, we have finally been given the go ahead by the MSA to implement the “Northern Speed Classes” so we have now finalised the full class structure & clarifications that will be used by the majority of speed events in the Northwest, Northeast and Midlands in 2010.
Please note that whilst all clubs listed will be using these clarifications, we have tried to get all clubs to also use the classes as listed but there are still a few clubs who have decided not to adopt them just yet, whilst others may add extra classes or amalgamate some of those shown in order to accommodate local practice. The structure is being adopted voluntarily so, whilst we have requested that all clubs/championships keep to the same class numbering system, we cannot compel them to do so. If you find a club or championship that is not using the new structure, why not suggest (strongly) to the organisers that it would be a good idea for them to adopt them?
We welcome feedback on your experiences during the year so that we can tell how successful the classes have been, and can consider any minor tweaks that may be required for 2011.
Last update was on the 30th November 2009
You can find the full details by clicking here
These changes mainly effect those competing in the Roadgoing classes, please read them carefully before preparing your car for 2010.
Ian
Your confusing me
My understanding is, that as long as you do not change the type, configuration & mounting of suspension from that was originally fitted then changing a Mcpherson strut for adjustable coilover type system would be permitted.
Sorry Ron, I get it now thanks
My understanding and have been told that if it doesnt have coil overs as standard then you cant use them.
See uphillracers forum for plenty more discussion on this.
Can someone give me a definative yes or no answer please.
My car does not come with Tein coilovers can i run them in 1c?
Thanks
My take is, if it did not have coilovers, Mcpherson struts or similar fitted originally then the answer is no as you can not change the configuration from what was fitted by the manufacturer.
If it did have them fitted then as long as you do not move the mounting points then you are OK to fit them.
If you have separate dampers then you can change them to the adjustable type with a coilover as long as they are a direct replacement and you do not have to move the mountings to stop fouling etc.
Hopefully someone with a bit more technical know how might be able to give you a better answer.
And with regards to Oliptic topmounts, these bolt to the existing Stutt top mount location but allow slight camber angle change. Are these allowed?
I dont want to turn up for my 1st race and be not allowed to participate.
Ian,
Does your suspension type agree with the following statement?
“The suspension type and mountings must remain the same as that fitted by the manufacturer. The shock absorbers may be of any make and may be uprated from standard. Adjustable spring platform struts are permitted. The mounting method and position must remain as specified by the manufacturer. Springs are free but must retain their original location.”
If it does then you can use them if not you can’t. If it agrees with the the first & third sentences then you should be OK.
Hopefully there is some out there who understands it better than I do.
As long as you don’t beat anybody it won’t matter what you run, but as soon as you beat one of the old guard then they will twist that statement above to mean you can’t run coilovers and/or you can’t run top mounts!
The suspemsion type is the same: Both are strutts.
The top and bottom mounting positions are as the original location but has an allowance for movement within the top mounting position .
I think that i comply with the Regs as they are written above.
Does the ‘ Bushes may be changed for similar polymer materials, but rose-joints or similar metal joints are prohibited.”part of the Regs also include the Strutt top mounting…………….IE Metal Joints? as in spherical bearing.
Reading the new rules, Spherical bearings or rose joints are specifically not allowed for road going. So if you have adjustable top mounts which allow castor/camber changes and these use a spherical or rose joint then no you can’t use them and will have to move into a Mod Prod class with cars with plastic panels and windows and slicks……
That sounds a bit unfair, mine is a 4 door saloon every day road car…………drives the kids around, shopping, fully trimmed with nothing removed and everthing working.
So if all of us road modified cars end up in mod-prod, because of a few bearings, what rules are msa/northern speed changing in mod-prod? I have seen much more extreme bending of the rules in mod-prod than I “ever” in road going. Are the rules being tightened up in mod-prod too?
Dane
The Northern Speed group has not changed any rules/regs, all we have done is clarify them as per the MSA. The MSA now recognise that Section I/L was not user friendly and are now in the process of adding clarifications.
I am sorry but there were a number of competitors like as you say in Road modified that were pushing the boundaries over and beyond what was meant. All that has been done is to tighten the existing regulations to achieve an even playing field in roadgoing classes.
If competitors want to test the boundaries then that is what the mod prod classes are for.
Those that are being affected already knew this was going to happen and most have accepted the changes in the spirit they were meant.
The new Blue Book for 2010 is going back to the original format and should be easier to use.
At the end of the day we have to run our events to the regulations in the Blue Book which we all agree to when you apply for your Competition /Officials licence and club membership.
Think i forgot to mention, I also run stock brakes, wheels, engine, gearbox, diff …………………….i agree that if the rules state i have to run in Modified i will,
Soto clarify if i was to run a 1000hp engine with dog box, WRC Brakes with Titanium wheels but put rubber mounts on WRC suspension i could go in Roadgoing Production lol.
As long as it wasn’t a sequetial gearbox! But you forgot the carbon fibre bonnet and bootlid that you cah run in road going! If the MSA were serious about Road going classes being “realistic and not too modified” they shouldn’t allow anything other than the original materials for all body panels.
Another one is that you can remove the carpet, but do you still have to retain all sound proofing materials.
The suspension issue is to bring road modified speed cars in line with enduro spec rally cars. Does the MSA not realise that this category has died a death?
Will the MSA be retro banning 1B tyres in 2010 or are they still to be allowed (if not in the Northern Speed Championship)?
Does the below statement mean these are unacceptable in Roadgoing:
Tein use Pillowball uppermounts with NMB spherical bearings which replace the OE rubber mount,
This really puts me in a predicament now, I cant go in Roadgoing because i have a bearing at the top of my suspension strutt.
I cant go in Modified because my Roll cage has 2 bends(dash dodger) in the front Vertical hoop leg.
I wont be racing if both these are the case.
As I read the amended rules, spherical bearings aren’t allowed even if they were fitted as standard.
The mounting position and method must remain as specified by the manufacturer. To clarify, does that mean that you can’t fit Peugeot 309 Gti standard wishbones to a 205 GTi (the 309 Gti wishbones are longer and give more negative camber) as this would effectively alter the mounting position of the bottom of the hub (pushing it outwards)?
Ina similar vein most Road going class Minis currently have negative camber bottom arms and adjustable tie bars, would these be legal in the road going classes?
The updated Reg I.80 is very specific as to what is allowed.
If spherical bearings were fitted as standard then there would be no problem as you can change like for like.
As for the wishbones if you move the mounting points then that is not allowed.
There was always going to be casualties in a reg change as big as this one.
Everytime I look at your regs they have changed again, whats going on? How are you meant to prepare a car for next year when the regs keep changing. By the way who is changing them every 5 minutes? Is it the MSA or the Northern Speed group?
Dane,
They have not changed since you last posted.
The updates have been due to the MSA not us as we find out about the 2010 Blue Book.
There are two more minor updates to come, the change of regulation references to the original system used upto 2007 and an update to the suspension clarification so watch this space.
I’v just resigned myself to Modified production, will cost me a lot of money to make the eligible though.
I suggest we give Ron and his team a break here and just have a carefull think. I spotted this 1 yr ago and what the lads have achieved through liason with the MSA has done us all a massive favour. The new regs as stated are understandable, enforcable and appear acceptable to the MSA. For my part I have had to buy a reclaimed set of top mounts (as new ones are no longer available for Doris) to continue to compete in 1b. I will be racing on second hand rubber, not ideal, one day I hope that in the interests of saftey we can have a sperical bearing in the top mount even if it has to remain in the exact position of the axis of the original part. We shall have to see if other competitors wishbones are returned to standard, some of the “road going” production cars have turning circles akin to a super tanker. :0
Latest News!!
After talking with the MSA again it looks like the MSA are going to let us us use spherical bearings as long as it is an integral part of the replacement uprated strut or damper and the mounting points are not moved or altered.
Please watch this space I should be able to give you a definite answer in the next few days.
I am just waiting for the correct wording to arrive from Midland Speed